Material Type

Recording

Date Range

1994

Fonds

Dr. Hugh Arnold fonds

Description Level

Fonds

Physical Description

1 audio cassette (digital file)

Physical Condition

Excellent

History Biographical

Dr. Arnold donated his papers to the Galt Museum and Archives in September 1993, with the provision that they be available for an independent study project done by University of Lethbridge student Donna Kampen, under the supervision of Professor Bill Baker of the Department of History. Donna Kampen organized Dr. Arnold's papers conducted a series of oral history interviews (8 audio cassettes) with Dr. Arnold.

Acquisition Source

Arnold Dr Hugh A

Scope and Content

The following transcript was prepared by Donna Kampen. Q Dr. Arnold, you were going to look over the transcripts of our previous interviews and make any corrections. A: I think I've made the corrections on this one. At least, I've added a bit here. I think you got this from me before. Q Yes. A: Anyways, this is where I've made corrections. Q Yes, filled in dates and things... A: Some. Some I haven't been able to get information on. But I've added some things here—a little more information about my half brothers. I think I've got about as much as I want there. Q: You may have come across names that if you haven't spelled them out for me, I've just given them my best guess. See that name there...the tape may have been muffled there. A: Yes, well that may have been me, too. I may just not have recalled it. Now, before I go any further, when my father died in Victoria a few years ago, one of my brothers in Victoria came along one day when we were out to visit them and he said: "You better take this little booklet. It may come in handy sometime." And I've just looked at it in the last few days—just since I last saw you. And its difficult to make out, to make it quite clear in some places, but this is the diary of my father before he went to war, and during the war, and after the war. Q: Oh really? A: Yes. Its written all in his own hand. Isn't it great. Q: Oh yes. Its precious. A: Here he is, you see, in England, (reads) "December 31, 1915: Kings Cross Station London. 9:50. For Edinburgh, Scotland. Newcastle. 3:30. Crossing the Tyne river. Pleasant trip so far. Next stop Edinburgh. Q Oh, that's interesting. A: Yes. Anyway, what it has done, is given me some exact dates with regard to when he went overseas, when he joined the army in Canada before going overseas, and this is 1914. Q: Oh, I know. 80 years ago. A: And then coming back, when my brother and my mother and I left Vancouver to meet him in Calgary—took the train to Calgary. Here it is here. My mother's death--the date my mother died, he entered it into the book, her burial. She was buried in Vancouver. Well—details of that kind, you know. See here's a notation: "Received letter February 16, 1919, stating my younger boy had started school, and the oldest boy (that's me) passed the senior second reader, first in the class of 20. Only 8 years old." Q This would be when he was in Calgary right after the war. A: This would be a letter from my mother to him. I think he would have been back in this country by now. In Ontario, probably. See: "Went to Cookstown, Stayed until Wednesday. Returned to Toronto. Left 7:00 PM for home—Vancouver, B. C. Then: 14 May 1919, left for Victoria 9:30 A.M., returning to Vancouver that night. Proceeding to Hastings Park for discharge. Expect my discharge Monday, May 15, 1919." Q: Yes, it took a while after the armistice before they were discharged. That's about six months. Yes. That's fascinating. A: It is indeed. Q It takes some work to...you should get it transcribed. It would make it easier to read as time goes by. A: Yes. Its readable now, but its getting quite difficult in some places. See here-some of his experiences overseas. Q He had wonderful handwriting. A: Yes. He had a lovely hand, a great hand. Anyway, this is it. I think I've gotten most of the dates we were looking for out of this book. See here—this is after the war. I think he was looking for work here. Q Yes, well there were an enormous number of men being released into the workforce as they were discharged. A: See here...he had gone to Regina, "returning Sept. 9, 1920". Then September 30, 1920 he was gone to Champion, I think he was working with farm equipment. See here: "Nobleford, Vulcan...Took train to High River, returning same day. Drumheller, Rosebud. Returned to Calgary that night Then "Rosebud, and Rosebud" again. This is interesting because of the fact that Rosebud has become an interesting place. The theatre, you know. Q Oh yes. A: These are trips that he made mostly in Alberta-and the prairies. He's handling some type of farm equipment. These are "Received from....$100." etc. etc. Q: He's keeping track of what he's doing—receipts and expenditures. A: Yes. This was his bookkeeping. Let's see: "Received from Mother, Gold Piece. Christmas gift." Q Would that be his mother? A: No, my mother. "Sunday, December 6, 1925. Joined the first Baptist Church, Calgary. Mother..." (he called my mother, 'Mother'). Q Yes. A- "...Hugh, William and Dad. Transferring our letters from Westbourne Baptist Church in Calgary."..." "April 6,1928. The wife took a stroke at 5:00 p.m. One side paralyzed. Her sister Jen arriving at 1:30 same afternoon from Vancouver. My wife died at April 30,1928. Body taken to Vancouver for burial in the family plot." "Received offer from the Canadian Bakeries Limited to take charge of the Edmonton branch. Left Calgary March 28,1929. Arrived Edmonton 6:00 p.m." That's when he went to Edmonton. So that's interesting. Q Oh, is it ever. A: So I've got some of these dates corrected. There are one or two things that I haven't been able to get, only because I haven't been able to get to the people I wanted to ask. You raised the question in one of our sessions of, during the war, was there rationing of gasoline and so on. And I believe there was. The people from whom I think I can get more definitive answers from, I haven't been able to get. They're just not available. But that's information that I will get. Did I get those new dates on that transcript. Q Yes, here they are. That pretty well tidies it up, I think. A: Now this is another hobby of mine...family trees. See here's our family tree here...you can tell me if there's anything that would be of interest. Q: Well, I think your family tree would definitely be nice to have in the papers. A: This is a list of the class I graduated with in 1938. Q I think this is in the papers already—from when you had your 25th class reunion. A: That could well have been. Well, I've just brought these out in case you didn't have them. Q I'm sure this was in the papers. A: This is just a little talk I gave after one of our Doctors died. Dr. Penner. Q: I remember him. A: Don't feel obliged to take any of this stuff, if you don't think it will be useful. Q: I don't think I'll worry about this, but the family tree would be nice to have. A: This is a book that I helped compile. Have you got a copy of this? Q Yes, I have. You know, there's really not much in your papers about your retirement from practice. A: I see. These were written by the Herald at the time I retired. And this was from Sister Lucille. A great friend of mine. She gave me that, years ago. This is another book of philosophy that was given to me by...somebody. Q: I think you'll want to keep these. These are keepsakes. A: Yeah, these are personal. Yeah. This is a copy of my birth certificate. You know, something I haven't mentioned to you. The Sea Cadets had a 50th year reunion. It would be two years ago in June. Q: Oh yes. I think the official program of that event is in the papers. There were some things about that reunion, but not a lot of detail. A: I was on the committee that organized it, and this is some detail here, correspondence, minutes of meetings of the organizing committee. That sort of thing. Q: If this isn't something you want to keep for yourself, this would be good to have in the papers. This would round off the Sea Cadet material nicely. A: Oh, well we had a lot of meetings. Meetings and meetings and meetings. Q Well, as I say, this would round off the Sea Cadet Material nicely. A: Now this had to do with my retirement. Or I think my 80th birthday. Our grandson composed this poem. Q And its pretty good, too. A: Yes, Yes it is. I have a cousin who lives in Ontario. He's a bit of an artist. He's actually an architect, but he came out for that party for my 80th birthday. He sat in the house and drew pictures. That's Bill. These are precious. You'll want to keep them. A: Yes. Now this is just some notes I made about the clinic. We put out a little history of the clinic. Q Yes. That's in the papers. A: Now, If you want any of this, you can take a copy. Q Okay, I will. A: Now this is just some notes I made, some information I got on retirement. Q: Were you thinking of writing a paper? A: I gave a talk once on aging. I was interested in geriatrics, and this of course relates to that. This is kind of fun. Q: (Reads and laughs) Now, this looks like two drafts of the same talk. A: Yes, yes it is. Q Now it all depends on if you think you'll ever want to refer to this again. A: No, that's unlikely. Q There's some other stuff on aging in the papers. And this gives your thoughts on it. I think its appropriate that it go in with the rest of the papers. The only thing is, once the archives has them, they have them. You could always go in and look through them, but I don't think you could remove anything. A: But I could use them Q Oh yes. A: Now, what have we got here? Letters. Every organization has a man who is a kind of a contact. We have a fellow in Calgary by the name of Bradley. He's the fellow who sets things up for our meetings and reunions and things. This is a chap, I think I may have told you before, this is an article on Ayre... Q Oh yes. He's the one who popularized the PAP smear. I'd like a copy of this. A: Sure. Now I was at one time the President of the University of Alberta Medical Alumni Association. The executive director was a chap by the name of Alex Markle. This is a little story about Markle. Q I think they'd only be interested in Markle as he relates to you. A: I told you I wrote a summary about the Sea Cadets. These are some of my notes about it for when I went on TV. This is just a framework, a chronology. Q Well, like I said before, If you don't think you're going to need to refer to it again, it would fit in nicely with the papers. A: Well, I think that's about it. Q We were going to talk briefly about the Canadian Society of Internal Medicine. A: I became interested in the Canadian Society of Internal Medicine when I was the President of the Alberta Society of Specialists in Internal Medicine. At about that time, Dr. Brock Fernie, who I had met while on a refresher course at the University of Toronto Medical School after the war. He was practicing in Vancouver. He was the President of the British Columbia Society of Internal Medicine at about the same time that I was the President of the Alberta Society. He spearheaded the formation of a Canadian Society of Internal Medicine. He called a meeting together in Edmonton of internists who were present at the annual meeting of the Canadian Medical Association. So there were Doctors there from all over Canada. He was elected the President, and I was the secretary for the first year. At a subsequent C.M.A. meeting in Banff, we met again. It was hard to get it together, you know, but it eventually got going and became a very vital, active organization. I wanted to have that on the record. (Mrs. Arnold joins us) Q Mrs. Arnold, I thought it might be interesting to talk with you as we round off these interviews. Just to get your perspective on things. A: Well, sure. Q: A number of times during our talks, Dr. Arnold has remarked upon the fact that you took an enormous amount of responsibility for the home and family, particularly while the children were young and he was establishing his practice. A: Oh, I suppose so, but I never really thought about it like that. He was always here, you know. Q: You worked as well, did you not. A: Well, after my father died, my mother came to stay with us, and I had an opportunity to go back into teaching. I had always liked teaching, and I thought it was something I would like to do, so with my mother here to help out with the children I decided to give it a try. Q: Well, if you get along well with your mother, that's an ideal way to do it. A: Oh yes. And that was just fine. So I started to teach part time. I don't know if it was one year—yes I think it was probably just the one year, and then they asked me: "Well, could you go full time?" It had worked out well, so I did Our son, Hugh, was the youngest. Mother was a great one—she was an active person, and she would take him to the rink to skate and do all sorts of things with him. And had a good time with him, and he enjoyed her. The girls got along fine, too. So that was how we worked into it. I had never had any thought of going back to work. It had never occurred to me, because, as I say, the children were still at home, and our son was only in grade four. He was still quite young. No, it had never occurred to me, and I'm not sure that it ever would have. If those circumstances with my mother coming to us— who knows? How can you tell? By the time he had gone on a little further in school, I might have been looking for something. But the thing is, I hadn't thought of anything. I taught not a full ten years, less than ten years, but things were changing. I had a sense that either I wanted to--I felt I had to update myself. I felt that I wasn't —I was beginning to teach more classes with the Junior High, and the whole teaching situation was beginning to change. As I say, I felt I was needing something... Q Well, the changes in Math really moved in those years. A: Well, that wasn't the problem, no that wasn't the problem at all. I enjoyed that It was the atmosphere within the school, and the...Oh, there wasn't the same respect for teachers. All of the years that I had taught, and that included the first years that I taught, discipline was no problem. There was just a good feeling. You felt that your students appreciated you and respected you, and you enjoyed them. It was great. It was just beginning to change... Q In the Sixties. A: Yes, this was changing. And I felt that I just wasn't prepared to cope with it. That's just what it amounted to. I knew that I would have to get myself geared up and into the mode of operating, and be happy and satisfied with it, or I wasn't prepared to do it and be disgruntled. Q: Yes, if you can't get up and look forward to your work at least three days out of five... A: At that time, I resigned. Right at the same time Hugh had his serious condition of Rheumatoid Arthritis, and it was good that I was home. So that was a satisfactory arrangement. Having done that—and during the time that I was teaching I didn't feel that I had time or the opportunity to make a contribution to the community and when I was finished teaching I felt that I was ready for that. That's when I was asked to go onto the board of the VON and the Senate of the University. Out of those things came a lot of volunteer work. It just seems to all come. I was available, and the word gets around. So that was how it all got started. And I've never regretted going back to work. No, oh no. I don't know how it would have worked out or exactly how I would have managed...mind you, you see, by the time I was really involved significantly at work, when I became the Chancellor of the University and went on to become the President of the VON in Canada...if I hadn't sort of gotten out into the community when I did, I don't know if those things could have ever happened, because without mother being there., .it was just a certain set of circumstances that happened. Q Probably you're right. If you hadn't already been "out there", I doubt if at 64 you would have even tried, or thought that you could do it. A: Well, at 641 still didn't think I could. And if it hadn't been for Hugh I never would have! I gather he's told you some of what I did. I could never have done it without his support and his encouragement. Because, well, you hadn't done them. You had to build up your confidence. I didn't have enough of that, and I needed a lot of support in many ways. Certainly, I would never have done many of the things I did without that. I don't think so. It would have meant a whole other way, and don't think things would have happened this way. Q Oh, I agree. But the support was mutual. A: Oh, I've made some little comments. I pointed put that being a supportive wife...certainly I think that medical doctors in those days needed that, and probably do yet. Maybe not quite so much. But in those days, when you were answering the telephone, and taking care of your children, and taking messages, and doing all these things, there was never a break, because they didn't take time off. They were always on call, and that was the feeling you had. Long hours, Saturdays and Sundays and everything. And the home phone number was as available as the office. Q (Laughs) You were probably asked for medical advice more than once. A: Oh yes. As the Doctor's wife you were expected to know. "You ought to know what I should take!" (Laughs) Q I can imagine that. One thing that I've asked Dr. Arnold without too much success because he says he doesn't get angry anymore. But you might have a better perspective. What made him angry? A: Well, I don't honestly recall Hugh being angry. Q. Well then "frustrated"? A: I could say frustrated. I could say that I've known him to disapprove. You could tell when he was frustrated. But angry... Q Maybe "angry" is too strong. A: Well, frustrated, certainly. He .... Q. I know, this is a really tough question. I thought about it, thought, well, you know, if someone asked me: "What makes your husband angry?", I would have to answer something like: "Well, when something happens to the car right before a long weekend, that makes him angry", but I would have a hard time thinking of anything other than those types of things. I think I know what you're feeling, because I would have a hard time answering that question myself. A: Yes. Well, isn't that ridiculous. Because I certainly can tell when he is frustrated. But what is it that does it....it doesn't happen. Q Well, I think that I can believe that. A: He's very even tempered. He's very tolerant. He's not concerned about what other people do, in terms of being critical or upset with them. He's sensitive. Q I think you're right in terms of him being even tempered. A: As I say, he's sensitive to how other people are feeling and so on, but he's very tolerant. Q Yeah, I think so. Have you read all this? (The transcriptions) A: Well, I read just a few pages today, where what I referred to just a few minutes ago. Yeah. Q: Well, I'm going to make a few corrections, and a copy will go in the archives, but I'll get a copy back to you. Feel free to read it. I quite like it, as it goes along. It started out in quite an interrogative mood, you know with questions and answers. But as we moved along the last six months, we gradually got into "conversations." I think that we both enjoyed it. A: Oh yes. Q I'm going to do a paper, a biographical paper. I've talked a little bit about the focus. I think that I want to concentrate on the fact that his practice has spanned such an era of change in medicine. A: Yes. Q You know, he began practice just before antibiotics and things like cortisone. And antibiotics changed the whole pattern of practice of medicine. And then moved into things that were unheard of, even when he was in medical school, the idea of heart transplants and kidney transplants...things that even 20 years ago were experiments and are now commonplace... A: Exactly. Q: I think that because his career in medicine spans that time so nicely...while he was in medical school there were no antibiotics, and just when he began his practice....so I think I'm going to focus on something like "the changes" and how they impacted on a doctor practicing in a small city on the Canadian prairies. A: Yes. Q: That's how I'm looking at it right now. Sometimes when you start these things... A: They get away on you don't they? (laughs) Q Yes...all of a sudden you're down a completely unfamiliar path, (laughs) A: But if it seems to work well... Q: Yes. I'm never prepared to commit myself too fully until I've got a draft more or less completed. I think I'm going to want to finish this off (transcriptions) and then I will start sort of drafting out the paper, but I'm going to want to get back and have him sort of look things over. A: That sounds like it would be very appropriate for his practice. Q You know, I think that his papers and these interviews are going to be fascinating to some yet to be born historian, just because they cover that time period. A: Yes. Q: One thing that we haven't covered in these interview is how he feels his church, his religion has had an effect on his life and his practice of medicine. We haven't really touched on that at all, and yet I know that he's been a churchgoer all his life. A: Well that's something that he could give you better than I can, but certainly his family background...and as you say, its been an important part of his life. But its been to my knowledge...its probably been the basis of his life. On which he has... Q: Yes. That's been the impression that I've gotten over the past few months. A: His whole philosophy of life has been based on the Christian religion, and he's been a Christian person all his life. At least that's how I see it. Its certainly influenced him. And when you say the qualities he has, of being caring and concerned, gentle, tolerant—all of these characteristics which he has, all of these come to him from that background and his Christian religion. I think so. Q. Yes. A: Sometimes more than others he's been involved—participating—but he's always been a member of the Baptist church here, to the point of being moderator for a while, and on committees and so on and so forth. I really think that his Christian beliefs have permeated his whole life. His family life, and certainly his practice of medicine. . Q: I think you're right. And I just didn't think that it was appropriate that we end this autobiographical 90 or so pages here (refers to transcripts) without ever bringing that up. Because, you know, we hadn't. Since the very, very beginning when we had talked about him becoming a member of the Baptist church in Calgary, we hadn't talked about it. And I didn't feel...I was a little uncomfortable about that. A: Yes. Q: Now he may not want to add anything further, but... A: Yes, as I say, to put a personal note on it. But my perception...that's the way I feel about it. His Christian beliefs... Q When you look back on it, is there anything big that you would have done differently? Do you think that living in Lethbridge was...are you happy that you did that? Have you ever thought: "What would have happened if we had stayed in Montreal, or moved to the U.S., or..." A: (laughs) I never had time to think about that, to tell you the truth. A flash goes through that there was one point in time where he had the opportunity to go to California. I suppose he's mentioned that. Q: No, I don't think he has. A: Well, he was asked to join a clinic in California. That was following the time when he had been taking post graduate work in Harvard. He met a person who became a friend at that time (and is still a friend. We visited with him when we were in California last winter.) Is that the one whose sons are physicians? A: Yes. In the meantime, shortly after he'd been in Boston they invited him to join their clinic in California. We were in the habit of going to California for our vacation, and so we went along with him, and he gave it some consj deration-quite serious consideration—and its sort of a standard joke in the family. This is digressing. Our girls, our whole family, because we visited California so frequently and they had relatives there, and had such good times, they have a very very warm spot in their hearts for California. Our oldest daughter always teases her dad and says she's never yet forgiven him for not taking us to California when he had the opportunity. Its not really quite true but... Q What do you think was the deciding factor in the decision to stay in Lethbridge? A: You'd have to ask him that. Q Okay. A: I don't think that we really wanted to be Americans. Q I think I can understand that. A: If you ask me how I felt about it, really, there wasn't anything that I could see about that particular location that appealed to me so much that I wanted to leave Canada and become an American. I guess that's about where I was. And as long as Hugh wasn't saying that he was wanting to go and was prepared to go, and were we prepared to go, I was satisfied that he made the decision not to go. The other situations...at the time of his retirement... I thought that Hugh was well qualified to do teaching...at the University and so on. I had mentioned that to him many years ago, but that wasn't something that appealed to him. He preferred to (and this is my understanding anyway—these things all happened a long time ago—) he was satisfied with what he was doing. Q I think he would have been a good teacher. A: He would have been an excellent teacher. He is a good teacher. He would have been and excellent person..he's very good with young people and with the students and so on. An excellent teacher. Q: Yes. Very patient. Always willing to explain. A: Yes. Anxious to explain and teach. So that he would have done well. But ....I guess, I was thinking today, that going back as far as we go back, there wasn't so much thinking... In my own case, I went to teaching because it was available. My parents were able to set it up for me. I didn't think about what I needed to do. Well, I knew what I wanted to do...I wanted to be a nurse. But because I was an only child, my parents-my mother had had a sister who had been a nurse, and they had the impression, and rightly so, that nursing was a pretty... Q: They worked very hard. A: Yes. Very hard. Scrubbing floors and doing everything in those days. Q: Yes. A: I think, well, I know, that they thought that there must be some easier way for me to go rather than go into that profession, so they encouraged me to try teaching so I did. But I was never...I always had it in mind that I would like to try nursing. Well, then I did. I was much more comfortable with nursing. Seeing myself perhaps having a career in nursing, but not in teaching. Mind you, I enjoyed the teaching, too, and when I went back to it was a pleasant experience. Q: Yes. I took education, but I decided not to teach. I thought my heart would break. A: We have a daughter (of course Hugh has probably mentioned this) who is teaching grade one. I think that the only ways you can look at it is that you do what you can, and take satisfaction in what you are able to do, while recognizing that you can't do it all. You can't take it all home with you, Q: Yes. I think its much more difficult to be a teacher now than what it was 20 or 30 years ago. A friend of mine who teaches says its not unusual for her to have 3 or 4 seriously emotionally disturbed children in her class. It makes it very difficult. A: Oh yes. Judy's at Galbraith, and she runs into similar experiences. In fact, this year it was so serious, she had so many behavioral problems, it was approaching half the class. So she presented her problems, and she was granted an aide because it was just impossible. Q Oh, I know. A: She said that you know, you spend all your time taking care of these problems, and the poor children aren't learning anything. So the aide has been a great help to her, and she's now feeling that it has been a worthwhile year, but before Christmas she was really, you know, upset. Q Oh, I believe it. A: The biggest problem was not being able to teach. Q Yes. It's very difficult. HA: How're you doing? Q Very well, thank you. Dr. Arnold, I asked Mrs. Arnold how she felt that your commitment to Christianity has influenced your life, and I think what she said has basically covered it, but is there anything you'd like to add? She said that basically she considers that your Christianity has permeated your whole life, your profession, your home life... LA: My impression is that your commitment to Christianity has been the basic philosophy of your life, and that you have... HA: I think that's a fair statement. IA: And that you've conducted your family life and your professional life and so on... You're not a saint! But pretty close. (All laugh.) HA: You've made my day! IA: It would be my observation that that's your standard. HA: I think that's true. I think that the tenants of Christianity are pretty good rules to live by. If you try and live by those tenants, you can go to bed with a pretty clear conscience. And if you deviate, get it straight, get it straight with somebody. You know, the world is a wonderful place to live the way it is. The way we live, and where we live, we're awful fortunate, awful fortunate people. Being mixed up with the health profession, I can recall going through the uncertain days of "where are we going to wind up?" when Tommy Douglas was at his...I think what Tommy Douglas did was good for everybody. And the philosophy of the Health Care System the way we have evolved it had been very good for everybody. I think so, anyway. Q Yes. HA: I attribute it to Tommy Douglas. Yes. Q We've agreed before. Our system is infinitely superior to any other system. HA: I don't care about or for Tommy Douglas's political philosophy. Not by any means. LA: But we needed him. We need his kind. HA: Yes. We need people who will go out in the field and beat the bushes and wake people up. IA: I think its so unfortunate that our federal government is the way it is now, because I think that the New Democrats, or what used to be the N.D.P.'s was an important conscience. Those people were spokesman to stimulate thinking and present a point of view. To keep us... Q: On that middle road? IA: Yes. They were that force that pulled to the left as opposed to that force that pulled to the right. I think they made a valuable contribution, and I hope that they will be able to continue to do so, somehow. Whether building up their party, or... Q Yes. I've always admired Audrey McLaughlin's philosophy of: "No work worth doing is below me." I A: Yes. I've always felt that I never wanted to ask anyone to do anything that I wouldn't do. That's where I came to the conclusion-or its helped me come to the conclusion—that I couldn't support capital punishment. I couldn't ask someone to kill somebody when I wouldn't be willing to do that job. I think we have to hear what these people have to say, and weigh it all. Mind you, I can't support euthanasia. But I'm of the opinion that down the road, its going to be inevitable. Q I hope not. Q Well Dr. Arnold, I think we've touched pretty well all the bases. What do you think. HA: I think so. After talking to you tonight about the serials that I've had stored for ten years or more, I'm glad to have those other things turned over to you. Q Yes, I think they'll fit very nicely in with the rest of the papers. Its appropriate that they be there. Ill be back in touch with you as I write the paper. There may be some points that I'll want clarification on, and so on. A: Have you got everything now? Q I think so. A: Its been kind of fun to sort of "scratch my brains'1. Its been kind of fun. Q Yes, I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I think we've put together a pretty interesting package. LA: You know, you mentioned about the difference in the forties as compared to how men participate now, I better make sure that you know that during those years when I was being so involved with volunteer work and so on, and I was aways from home quite a bit. During the time that I was Canadian President of the V.O.N. we were having problems with getting an executive officer for the organization, so I was sort of filling the two positions of President of the Board and Executive Officer of the organizations, so I was forced to go to Ottawa a lot So Hugh did take over. They ate a lot of cheese sandwiches. HA: (laughs) They were good, too. IA: He doesn't go out to eat. That was the problem. When I first started I'd leave things in the fridge for him, and when I came home they'd still be there. HA: Did you tell Donna about yourself? LA: Well, not really. You did that. HA: The Order of Canada, Officer? Q No, you didn't tell me about that. HA: Being the Queen's guest at her garden party? IA: I told Donna about your encouragement and about how important that was for me in order to try and do those things that I did. I guess it is also true that you not only supported me with encouragement, but that also, when you're doing volunteer work, your expenses are paid, but its never quite all it comes out to be, so that was no problem with you at all. When I was the Vice President, the Queen Mother had her 80th birthday. Because she was the patron of the V.O.N., the organization in Canada received three invitations. I was one of those...the executive officer at the time, the president and the vice president got the invitations, which included our husbands. Of course, it was an invitation, there was no funding to go. So Hugh provided the funding and we went to the Queen Mother's 80th birthday party. Q Isn't that wonderful. HA: We had a nice little chat with her. She was the honorary chancellor of the college that our son Hugh attended at Oxford. She was doing her "walkabout" and when she stopped and chatted with us we told her about Hugh. "How delightful!" she said. IA: "So nice of you to come!" were her last words. HA: That's right. A delightful person. Q I think we'll turn this off now, unless either of you have anything to add. HA: No, I don't think so. Islay? IA: No, I think we're about done.

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Accession No.

19931081175

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Archive

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