Material Type

Recording

Date Range

1994

Fonds

Dr. Hugh Arnold fonds

Description Level

Fonds

Physical Description

1 audio cassette (digital file)

Physical Condition

Excellent

History Biographical

Dr. Arnold donated his papers to the Galt Museum and Archives in September 1993, with the provision that they be available for an independent study project done by University of Lethbridge student Donna Kampen, under the supervision of Professor Bill Baker of the Department of History. Donna Kampen organized Dr. Arnold's papers conducted a series of oral history interviews (8 audio cassettes) with Dr. Arnold.

Acquisition Source

Arnold Dr Hugh A

Scope and Content

The following transcript was prepared by Donna Kampen. Q I was going to kind of review what we'd covered so far, just to see where we're going, and see if we've missed anything important. A: Yes, you know, I wanted to mention the Canadian Society of Internal Medicine. I've got some material on it at home, and I'm not sure if there's anything in the papers. I'm thinking particularly of the efforts of a Dr. Gilbert in getting the society up and running again. Q Really? A: Yes, you could say he was the "spark plug" who was responsible for getting it started up again and going. It had become quite dormant Dr. Gilbert was responsible for the rejuvenation of the Canadian Society of Internal Medicine. Previously, it had been called the Canadian Society of Specialists in Internal Medicine. Under his direction it became the Canadian Society of Internal Medicine. He was able to get a chap who was in Ottawa to act as the liaison in getting the Society recognized and active across the county. It has since that time (and 111 have to get those dates for you) become quite a healthy Board-a useful organization. I had a communication from the President of the society—they send out notices every now and again about one thing or another, and at that time I was prompted in my own mind to sort of get this history straight and submit it to the executive of the society. Just to sort of give them the background—the early history and the sort of slow birth and gradual activity and then sort of gradual petering out of activity. It now has become a very healthy organization. Now this is the sort of information that I'd like to get to the executive of the Society. Did you run across anything to speak of of a historical nature in any of the papers? I have some of the old minutes of meetings of the society, and I will send those to the President, but would you like anything that I've got here photographed or copied or made available in case you (or we) want them for what we've got here? Q Yes, I... A: Because once they go, they're gone. Q I think the more complete you can make the collection the better. A: I'll bring you what I've got. I know I've got them, they're sitting in my desk at home, waiting to be sort of properly prepared in a time sequence and sent off to Ottawa. I'll get those down to you. Q I don't recall anything at all in the papers, and I would remember. I classified those sort of things under "professional", and I would have created another category for that organization if there had been anything in your papers. A: I think I've had them out, ready to send to the Executive of the rejuvenated society and I have yet to get it done. It just occurred to me that maybe we had better have some of that material in case we want to incorporate it as part of this. Q Yes, I think its better if we have everything. Q Tell me about how a Doctor on the Canadian Prairies gets to be an Associate of the American College of Physicians. A: Yes... Q: Why was it important for you to be in the American College of Physicians? A: I think that the primary reason for becoming or wanting to become affiliated with the American College of Physicians is because of the fact that first, it was a professional body which afforded meetings, regional meetings on the Prairies, as well as annual meetings in various centres of the continent It was, in the United States as well as Canada and Mexico, a primary specialty group of concern to internists. The comparable body in Canada is the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons. That body is responsible for establishing the qualifications for and setting of examinations for specialty qualifications for all of Canada Those members of various specialty groups qualify now...let me go back. At the time when I was first —when I first wrote my examinations for specialty recognition in interned medicine, and I wrote them to be recognized by both the Royal College, and my own provincial licensing body. At the outset, the Royal College recognized candidates for the various specialty groups in Canada by examinations, both written and oral. There was a second group who were recognized as being specialists in various areas by virtue of a written and oral examination, but they were not made fellows of the Royal College. As time went on, the College recognized that it was necessary to have both groups, those who were specialists without fellowships as well as those who were both fellows and specialists. Eventually the college established one criterion, and those who had been specialists without fellowship were brought into the College as Fellows and a single qualifying examination, written and oral, was established as the only criterion to establish a fellowship in the various specialties in Canada Is that clear? Or have I managed to mix you up? Q Yes, I think I've got a handle on it. If I don't, I can always clear it up next week. A: You see, we're talking about the Royal College. And the Royal College is a separate body, independent form the Canadian Medical Association and the various provincial bodies which are responsible for licensing and discipline within the various provinces. And also distinct from the various medical associates, of which there are one in each province. Q Yes we've talked about that before, and I think I've got it all sorted out. A: Yes. Its important to understand the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada exists as an entity in and of itself, and responsible for the setting of standards for examinations and the granting of specialty certificates. There are other Royal Colleges. There's one in London, and another in Edinburgh. Some of the British doctors who came over to Canada after the war, of which there were many...(quite a few of them came to Lethbridge) some of them had actually passed their fellowship examinations in Great Britain prior to coming to Canada. The American College of Physicians—I should just say here that in the United States there is the American College of Physicians and the American College of Surgeons. These are similar bodies which recognize specialists in various areas of medicine. When I say medicine I include surgery as well as the physician only group. There is another fellowship group which is called the American College of Cardiologists, and there is a fellowship which one can qualify for if one is a member of that group, too. Q. Yes A: The American College of Physicians (of which you asked the question originally). To become affiliated with it, one applied originally to become an associate. This is at the time when I was interested in becoming associated with the American College of Physicians because it was a vehicle which would enable me to participate in professional meetings with fellows who were interested in the same areas that I was. The organization had associates by invitation and /or application. In order to become associated with the American College it was necessary to move through the original qualification of being an associate. After having been an associate for a certain length of time, and having undertaken responsibilities which were laid down by the college, including giving papers and attending so many annual meetings of the College, one could the apply for fellowship in the American College. The opportunity afforded itself at about the same time as I became concerned with the Canadian Royal College. The American College of Physicians was having what we called regional meetings in Canada. The region was comprised of members of the American College in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. It evolved that members who were fellows were responsible in helping establish a program whereby we had annual professional meetings at which papers were given. We had these meetings annually, originally, in various places of Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan. The meetings were held-I might be a little hazy on this~in Banff in February, and sometimes we met in Regina, other times in Saskatoon and generally speaking, it was either in Saskatchewan or Banff. Banff was a favorite spot because in February, we could go skiing! Anyways, after several years as an associate, I wrote and presented papers, professional papers at the meetings of American College of Physicians, and ultimately, I was given my fellowship, by virtue of attending the meetings. I attended one meeting in Atlantic City and another in Miami, and the third one that I went to when I got my fellowship was in Chicago. Those regional meetings are still held. There was a period of time when they weren't held, because there were a rather large number of meetings which were causing problems—that Doctors were being called upon to attend. But that has come around now, so that in Alberta they have an annual meeting, and it is attended quite well. The American College of Physicians is a very healthy and active organization, and there are representatives from each of the regions in Canada who represent us at the annual meetings in the United States where ever they have their meetings. Q So its really an international organization...you mentioned Canada, Mexico and the United States. A: Yes, although there are others, who are certainly (honorary, or by virtue of outstanding reputations) made members of the American College of Physicians from other countries of the world. Q: Can you describe the path that you, personally, took to become a member. When you decided that you wanted to be first of all an associate...am I right when I say that you felt that being in this organization would allow you to exchange ideas with your peers that would be valuable to you in your practice? A: Yes, that's it. Q. Can you describe just what you had to do to become an Associate? A: Yes. There was an increasing number of Doctors who were being recognized as specialists in internal medicine by the Royal College, and there were governors for the various regions of the American College. These governors were in Alberta and on the prairies, practicing physicians. They were interested in educational programs for members of the American College who were Associates and/or fellows. Dr. Percy Sprague who was one of the early internists in Alberta. He graduated from the University of Alberta, he had taken his internal medicine training at the Mayo Clinic. He returned to Alberta to be the first internist with the Baker clinic in Edmonton. He was a spark plug in encouraging the membership of fellows like myself to become affiliated with the American College. It was fellows like Dr. Sprague and others who I knew had become members. Another example of a Doctor who had been at the Mayo Clinic and had come to Alberta is Dr. Steve Thorson. He worked with the Associate Clinic in Calgary for some time. He was an early fellow of the organization. It was through people like Dr. Sprague and Dr. Thorson, and several others from Saskatchewan and Winnipeg in Manitoba who were enthusiastic members of the American College, and educators. It was people like those who attracted many of the internists who became affiliated first as Associates, and then by virtue of attending meetings and giving papers became fellows of the College. Q: In your papers, there is a letter from Dr. Sprague to you offering to sponsor you in the American College of Physicians. Was that part of the process—to have another Dr. who was a member sponsor you? A: Yes. Q: More than one? A: I think we had two. Q: I think that maybe your other one was Dr. John Scott? A: Yes, I think so. Dr. Scott was a professor of mine at the University of Alberta, in medicine, and was eventually the dean of medicine. Actually, I wouldn't be sure that Dr. Scott was one of my sponsors, but certainly he may have been. Q: Dr., maybe? A: Yes, Dr. McNeil may have been. He was a fellow of the Canadian Royal College. He was an internist with the Associate Clinic in Calgary. He and I were associates at medical meetings, and in medical politics. Q: Actually, I think it may have been Dr. Scott. The process started very early, in January, 1953, when Dr. Scott wrote to you, offering to sponsor you. Then, at the end of 1953~it took almost a year from beginning to end-there is a copy of a letter from you to Dr. Scott advising him of your election as an associate member, and thanking him. I suspect that thanks may have been for sponsoring you. A: Yes. That would be for coming in as an Associate. Now, when I became a fellow, I do recall that-Frank Matheson was the name of the Doctor in Winnipeg who was a fellow of the American College, and he was another one of the spark plugs who helped get the American College going. He was instrumental in maintaining it as an excellent vehicle for education and meetings through the years. When I was granted my fellowship, I'm sure that Dr. Steve Thorson, who lived in Calgary and was an internist there, was the governor of our area—the Alberta area—at that time. I'm sure he was a sponsor in the fellowship. Q I don't think that your papers include anything from when you became a fellow. I'm just looking at the dates here for all references to the American College of Physicians and it is all 1953. A: I would have to get some of my diplomas out to get these dates. Q Your election as an Associate would have to have been in 1953,1 think, because you wrote a letter to Dr. Scott in December of 19653 advising of your election as an associate member of the American College of Physicians, and thanking Dr. Scott. (reading from notes) I suspect that there may not be anything in the papers, however, about your fellowship. A: That may be. But I've got the dates on that and my diploma Also, eventually, I became a life member of the American College. Q: I don't think there's any reference to that in the papers either. It would be nice if we could get a photocopy of those diplomas for the papers. A: Sure, we can do that. Q: There are a couple of references in the papers to the "board", or "board certification". Did you have to do an exam or anything like that for membership in the American College of Physicians? A: No, there's another body in the United States called the American Board of Internal Medicine. They are responsible for designating qualifications for a specialist in Internal Medicine. Now that's a separate body from the American College of Physicians. And I do not have my American Boards. I am not a specialist in the United States. Q: Did you investigate the possibility of...? A: Yes I did look into the exams. As a matter of fact I took them! I went down to Great Falls one day and they had these true or false type questions. I had 75 questions in the morning and another 75 in the afternoon—something like that. And I failed it. The reason I failed was because I hadn't boned up well enough on diseases of the tropics—tropical diseases. Q: (Laughs) Oh...well you'd certainly see a lot of those in Lethbridge! A: (Laughs) No, not too many. No, I just hadn't done my homework adequately on t hat aspect of it. And I never went back at it. But, I went down and gave it a whirl. Q: Yes, I thought I remembered seeing something on that. A: That's the American Boards. Q: What would be the equivalent Canadian body to the American Board. Would that be the Royal College. A: Yes, I think so. Yes. Q So the equivalent of the Royal College... A: No, the Royal College is like the American College of Physicians. Q: Is there a Canadian equivalent of the "Board"? A: No. The Royal College sets standards, and qualifying examinations for specialists in the various areas. The American College of Physicians is responsible for, I guess its a recognition of specialty qualifications without passing examinations. Q: (laughs) A: The American Board is, if you want to do a specialty in the United States in anything, you have to pass the Boards. Q Yes. I seem to have heard the phrase "board certified" somewhere in my reading. If you are "board certified", you are entitled to use the words "specialist in internal medicine" or "surgeon" or whatever. A: Yes. That's correct. I did this shortly after I had gotten my Royal College ticket. As I say, I didn't have to write this board, but I said to myself: "Why don't you just go and do it, just for the fun of it." And it was okay, it was good. The other thing I thought, was that anytime I had an opportunity of boning up, to keep myself abreast, that this was the way to do it. And whether I passed or didn't pass wouldn't really affect me one way or another. I'd like to have passed, but I didn't But that wasn't what was important. Q: Well, again, you hardly ever see tropical diseases in Lethbridge. (both laugh) I guess the major benefit for you from belonging to these organizations was participating in that exchange of information? A: Yes. Q Did you feel that it was keeping you on the "cutting edge" of what was going on in your profession? A Yes. And it gave me the opportunity to get in there and give some papers. The paper on myocardial infarction in Southern Alberta? Q: Yes, I remember that one from the papers. A: Well, I gave that one at a meeting of the American College at the University of Saskatoon. You know, I wanted to do those things, I liked the idea of doing those sorts of things. Q Are you like most of us--when you get yourself into a situation where you know you have to get something done you get yourself organized and do it, but if you don't have to do it, its easier to put it off? A: Oh that's true, but at the same time I would have to say that I think I probably tried to bite off a little more than I should have sometimes. I didn't practice that way. Q: No. A: But I tested myself as much as I could, in order to make myself be qualified to practice. Q: Yes, I guess you come up against a wall, and you can either sit down in front of it or break through and grow. A: That's right, that's correct. Q We probably have to be about forty or so before we realize that. A- (Laughs) Q I'd like to talk a little about AFFUREADA. Is that how its pronounced? A: Yes, that's just right. Q: We probably won't get finished tonight, but we'll start and maybe get back to it later. A: Well, at an early stage of our deliberations as a body-it wasn't just a medical body--there were teachers, professors from the University—there was a rather wide spectrum of representation on that AFFUREADA body. One of the things that we wanted to do was to determine what would be the best method by which we could do the most good in establishing a foundation to guide us in our proceeding to get something that was going to be useful and practical and successful. As a result, we went ahead as a body. As I said, I was the representative of the Alberta Medical Association. Q: That was through the Committee on Alcohol and Drug Abuse? A: That's correct. Eventually we arranged to have a professional group come in and advise us as to what was the best thing to do in the formation of a foundation and he various intricate developments necessary to make this thing work on behalf of the people of Alberta. We didn't have very much money, but we went ahead on faith. After we had finished our association with the consultants who had come in, who had given it a lot of time and travel and effort, and then submitted a report to us, it became time for us to pay! We moved ahead enthusiastically, but didn't have any real idea of where the money was going to come from. Q Yes. A: I went to the Minister of Health, who was a very nice lady—I can't remember her name...it'll come. Helen Hunley. Anyways, to make a long story short, she paid for it—the Department of Health paid for our effort at getting straight with regard to the direction that we should go. Eventually, we had the professionals represented on the board, after I think two or three years. I moved on—I didn't resign, but a new chairman of the committee was appointed. Appointments in the Alberta Medical Association are annual appointments, and I think I had been on it for two, maybe three years. Anyway, I left it, and a new chairman came on, and at that point AFFUREADA seemed to move about without a specific direction, and eventually we had to give up our status as a foundation. Q: I got the feeling as I read the notes and letters back and forth between the various groups that it was formed out of a very deep conviction that there was a need. A: Quite right. Q But it just didn't seem to be able to get everything all working together. A: The other thing was the fact that AADAC was moving along sort of parallel to what we were doing, and they, of course had funds from the Alberta government—they were a government sponsored and paid for body. Q But their focus wasn't research. A: No, it wasn't research, and that was really what AFFUREADA was focused on. Q So really, there was room... A: There was room for the two—parallel. Yes, there was. But what we aimed for, certainly in the formative period of time, was to establish a chair at the University of Alberta for research in Alcoholism and Drug Abuse. We even had the professor in mind to do it, but we just didn't seem to be able to get our teeth into a mechanism for raising funds to do what we wanted. There was a point at which we came up against a—it wasn't a brick wall—it was—it just seemed that there was nothing there left to get our teeth into as far as raising funds. Q: Yet there were times when it seemed from the tone of the letters in the papers like "this is it—we'll be able to get this thing done!" A" We thought so, we really thought so. But even so, there was the fact that the profession had, through AFFUREADA, brought to the attention of the professionals and the community the need for what we were trying to do. Q: Raised the level of awareness. A: Yes. I think that's probably true. Q. I'd like to go into this in a little more detail some other time. I'm also interested in your work on the Ethics Committee of the C.M.A. A: Yes, the questions that we were dealing with then, we are getting into even deeper now. Q: While you were on the ethics committee, it would have been right after Roe vs Wade—that was the Supreme Court Case on abortion in 1972 or 1973. A: Yes, I think so. Q: That would have been an extremely important issue for the medical profession-still is for that matter. A: Yes. Q: There are other issues such as euthanasia, patient confidentiality... A: Euthanasia was a—it was coming—it was raised at annual meetings during the time that I chaired that committee. It was a real problem. We got into the issues of living wills, and the problems which have been wrestled with over the last ten years and are still being wrestled with were just coming out into the open then. Q I think that probably that technology was developing so quickly at that time that the technology itself created questions that perhaps doctors hadn't had to face before. I'm thinking in terms of a question like: "What is death? Is it the absence of respiration ? No, its not, because we can keep them breathing, and we can keep the heart going." Eventually, I think its been determined more or less to everyone's satisfaction that when the brain is dead, the body is dead, whether or not you can keep it breathing. But it took a while. A: Yes the problem is that...You know, I think they're having a meeting here this week..the Committee on Public Affairs-didn't they have something on that this week? Q I'm not sure. A: Well, anyways, we can get to all that another time Q. Yes, its getting late. Next week then.

Access Restrictions

Public Access

Accession No.

19931081172

Collection

Archive

Less detail